HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

topic posted Wed, January 16, 2008 - 6:47 PM by  *satya*
my ass...

my daughter and i Live in marin county and i direct a state licensed child care called Daydream.
i have many talents and gifts that i share within community.
i am a single mother and have been for twelve years without support.
i have been paying 2200 a month in rent plus bills yet when the storm came we had no heat or a way to cook for days.
i feel very tired of consuming so much to end up broke so i put in my 30 day notice on this home on january 1 meaning my daughter and i need to find a more efficient way to Live happily and in service by the 1st of february.
as well, i have been actively healing from recently realized child sexual abuse so i feel more vulnerable and more tired than ever.

i sent an email out to many friends for suggestions and 3 of them wrote back asking if i had considered harbin as a place to reside and work and heal.
i have never been to harbin hotsprings but felt it incredible that the Wind spoke to me thrice about it as an option so i heeded and called them up.

the "seraphim type", higher than thou, treatment that i received from the people in position there in the last couple of weeks has been startling and dramatic.
my genuine curiosity and Hope was met by hypocritical hierarchy.
they discriminated against me before i even got there for having a daughter and for needing healing.

i have come to Be greatly disturbed by their false projections of "Heart consciousness".

www.harbin.org/hccnacob.htm

i asked to come visit the land and shake a couple of hands for a few hours in the name of whether or not we would find that we did, indeed, want to apply for residency there.
nope, not permitted to do so without paying full price for both me and my 11 year old daughter.
just to walk onto the land!?
nope.
that is insane and unjust!
i told them that i did not have the money to eat much right now and that paying for gas was a stretch but they did not care.
i did not want to soak or stay overnight.
just a tour, please, on the sacred green damp Earth (that they do not and have not ever truly owned) and an interview.
i was told "we are not a charitable organization" despite their NONprofit, "Heart consciousness", status.
they have no scholarships for people in my position who could really use a dose of minerals and spring water but are funded to reach out and see the Oneness in All Beings. THEY ARE A CHURCH!!! what a selfish crock...

it seems to me, very clearly as i drew the owl card in reference to this, that the wind blew the name of harbin to me so that i could blaze through their DECEPTIVE facade.
now, i am called to write about it and spread the word because of how discouraging and appalling it was for me.
i called them in a time of much Hope and vulnerability and they discouraged me over and over again.
they invalidated my need and disregarded my plight.
"we don't have any therapists here", "it is difficult to get accepted with a child", "we have a VERY selective process", etc.
not once did any of them say, "welcome to you and your daughter. come. see what we are about and let's go from there."
they said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of the sort.

i am glad to hear that they are are "tight" financially. it may have something to do with their attitudes and Self righteous behaviors toward others whom they perceive as lesser than them.

it hurt feeling their discrimination and blatant disregard when i called with so much innocent excitement (my daughter and i both).

this posting is meant to challenge their structure with a fierce example of how they truly are, underneath it all, and when it comes down to it.

i see clearly and i will not be supporting that "community" on any level.
in fact, i will be spreading the word about my icky experience from here forth.

i realize how much passivity exists in most of the people who go there especially if they do not concern themselves with such things as poverty or struggle. i realize that these words will not stop the "regulars" from going for their monthly soak. i see how many people are so willing to just turn their heads and pretend like they do not even see anything unjust in this area if it does not serve them in the long run.
so Be it.
it matters not to the Universal scheme of things.
what goes around comes around.
period.

Peace.
posted by:
*satya*
SF Bay Area
  • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

    Wed, January 16, 2008 - 7:39 PM
    Hang in there mama

    Dude tell me about it!! man have i had some funny times in them springss!!!
    jeeeez

    one time several summers ago it was way late at night, and there is this super hot room, right next to the big spring tub... and all around it says no sex and no sounds blah blah...
    But the acoustics in the tub where off the hook!! i couldnt not start toning, the best acoustics around, and ubber hot waters ( i may have been slightly altered at that point as well ;) and so did, and right away a security guard came and told me not to, i complied and waited for him to go... then the urge came on again, only this time more people joined in... so a few minutes later the security guard came back and said" thats it man your outa here!!" and just like that he decided that i had to leave harbin!!! WTF??!! get this, as i was walking out of there... there was a couple fucking right infront of everyone!! and the Fuckin security guard didn't care!! Toning was far worse a crime there than fucking in the public pool!!!

    so whatever with those guys, they are obviously the ones missing out in your case!! cause you would bless up there scene with your daughter, and all that you do so what evs to them!
    **plus, it is such a scene there !! man just because you may be naked all the guys think that you are avvailable and coming on to them!! Even for me!! i always have a bunch of kreepy guys lusting after me with there eyes and vibes when im there!! its pretty gross!


    it is sure tough financially here in the states!! i've been here WAY longer than i expected, and man just bymyself without kids its hard enough!

    i feel you and just hang in there and hold strong to your vision and NEVER lower your bar!!

    blessings!!

    ~destino
    • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

      Fri, January 18, 2008 - 10:02 AM
      that is funny, i was up last night thinking the opposite....

      i was thinking that it would be amazing if everyone could always find open doors and always be helped and that is would al be perfect, but that even though Harbin mught be wrong for the fact that they list themselves as a non profit maybe the only place they are wrong in your estimation....

      first, it was other people who told you that harbin would be perfect....not harbin....so, you are listening to others in your time of need and then expecting Harbin to be a welcoming perfect place for you and her....

      second, you were saying that your daughter has been sexually abused, i dont konw who told you harbin is perfect place to heal, but that place is literally CRAWLING WITH SEX AND DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      i love it there and find great peace....but espcially during the summer, there are many rich kids from the bay area who run up there and PAR-TAY!!!!!!!!!!!! people have sex every where, i mean alllllll over the place, so i am not sure it is the best place for your daughter to heal.

      so, maybe you should be yelling at the people who did not warn you about the partying sex grotto they were trying to send you to................
      • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

        Fri, January 18, 2008 - 12:14 PM
        i was the one abused...
        not my precious daughter...
        i protect her from such things well...
        still, whether or not my inner child would heal from open sex acts all over the place is yet to be considered and i will not be finding out...
        i, personally, feel turned off by the notion...
        if, what you are saying is that they were "turning their heads" on us because of some plan to save me from the sex all over the place, they would, actually, be saying that it is not a healing experience to be made privy to such acts... do you hear your own way of excusing them?
        if they were coming from their Heart's, they NEVER would have turned us away from visiting the land and the vibration of what they are offering.
        maybe they all, actually, realize that being made privy to sex acts "alllllll over the place" is not a healing experience for most...
        think about that on the deeper levels...
        maybe they were scared of me because i am a seer and absolutely comfortable with calling things as i see them...
        i experience that quite often...
        people running from their own shadows and not Being able to around my daughter and i because of the Balance we exude...
        because of the Light we shine onto the shadows and the acceptance that we have in facing them...

        please do not project that i "expect"ed for harbin to be the perfect place for me...
        the word is bogus and another new age escapist trap...
        the word "Hope" gets turned into "expect" when the person faced with the Hope of another has fear and needs to project it back out in an attempt to falsely protect themselves. i call you out on that "angelicfiend"...
        i HOPED that harbin would be perfect and was dumbfounded by what i experienced in their greedy cold natures...
        i am MEANT to challenge their "Heart conscious" ploy because of the experiences that were VERY REALLY MINE...

        please, also, know that i am quite aware of the fact that their disposition is a Blessing...
        they saved me the trouble and gas by Being rude and cold...
        i recognize that the Universe has its perfect ways to tell each of us "yes" or "no" and i heed them...
        i am GRATEFUL for this experience...
        when i ask, more deeply, then, "what was the REASON i was told three times to go then get hit with such blatant disregard while simultaneously pulling the owl card, i grok that it was to catch them in their deceptions and spread the word. i am a channel and a poet, do not doubt my CHOICE to follow my Truth despite ANYONE'S reaction...

        i did not find "open doors" or arms at harbin hotsprings...
        i did not find "help" at harbin hotsprings...
        they list themselves as a non profit church...
        that is WRONG...
        yes, in my clear True estimation...

        by the way...
        i am not yelling...
        • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

          Fri, January 18, 2008 - 12:57 PM
          i was more hoping that you would see another way of seeing it, Seer ;)

          it is not a big deal to me, i have nothing invested in telling you what to think or who to feel, i was just pondering what you wrote about and thinking that there was another way to think on your situation.

          <<maybe they all, actually, realize that being made privy to sex acts "alllllll over the place" is not a healing experience for most...
          think about that on the deeper levels... >>

          i TOTALLY agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not yelling -- ; )

          <<"expect"ed >> i was trying to say that your friends "hoped" it was the place for you....is "projecting" the same thing as "saying"?

          << do not doubt my CHOICE to follow my Truth despite ANYONE'S reaction... >>
          not doubting your choice fair lady, I trying to show another possible view.

          Ok, -- you got me the non profit and HEART CONCIOUS part i dont buy either.... we are really agreeing..i was just thinking about what you said.

          you dont have to step back by telling me you are not yelling, i can respect and see which words you are chosing to highlight to make your points clear.

          take care and i truly wish you well. i am sure you will find your healing place.

          I totally unclear on what you say << Hope of another has fear and needs to project it back out in an attempt to falsely protect themselves. >>

          what am i proceting in thinking about your experience and wanting to talk about it? I have to know!!!!

          • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

            Fri, January 18, 2008 - 3:35 PM
            what i "see" is that there are particular vibrations put off in the words used in your original languaging...
            the direct result was the vibration that appeared in my response...

            "even though Harbin might be wrong for the fact that they list themselves as a non profit maybe THE ONLY PLACE THEY ARE WRONG IS IN YOUR ESTIMATION...."
            you are listening to others in your time of need and then EXPECTING Harbin to be a welcoming perfect place for you and her.... "

            you did say that i was expecting when i was, actually, simply Hoping and curious...

            what i mean is that when certain people are faced with other peoples deepest Hopes yet do not feel inclined to meet them they project (barf) them back out onto the people as "that's just your expectation" or "i can't meet your expectations" or "your expectations are too high for me" when to the person whose "expectations" it was in the first place it was their innocent Hope getting demonized and trampled like they should never Hope for or ask for anything that they truly dream or need because it may inconvenience the person from whom you Hope to receive it.

            "so, maybe you should be yelling at the people who did not warn you about the partying sex grotto they were trying to send you to................"

            in that sentence you insinuate that i was "yelling" at the people at harbin and i DID need to clarify that i wasn't, thank you...

            i appreciate your ponderance and your current validation, angelicfiend...
            as well,thank you for clarifying your genuine Heart and intention...

            i encourage you to pay close attention to your languaging as it can kind of stray from what you truly mean...

            Bless.
            • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

              Sat, January 19, 2008 - 8:55 AM
              Harbin is not a social service agency it is a business. As a paying visitor I am very happy that I do not have to interact with charity cases providing the services I pay for and find most of the residents that I have interacted with to be hard working and clear thinking. And the business of the "Heart Conciousness Church" has to do with tax exempt status, churches get a lot of tax breaks. It is intriguing this human need to attach a greater meaning to a place just because you want to reside there. I grew up among the Oregon Country Fair variety hippies and can attest that hippies and new agers are some of the most cut throat Capitalists that I have encountered, they just couch the terms with fluffy purple haze words like "Spirit Provides" and "Manifest". BTW seeing how children are treated around the pools to attempt to join Harbin with a kid would constitute neglect. Try Breitenbush in Oregon.
  • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

    Sun, January 20, 2008 - 11:21 AM
    This thread is loaded with distortions: Open sexuality and drug use are not common at Harbin Hot Springs.

    Satya, why are you crusading against Harbin? Harbin is what it is, with its faults and benefits. If it is not a good fit for you--if it does not offer you what you are looking for--why not look elsewhere? There are many other communities besides Harbin.
    • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

      Sun, January 20, 2008 - 11:53 AM
      my Goddess...
      i stopped considering harbin when i discovered their deceptive facade.
      even you play a role, obviously, by saying that open sexuality is not comon there. i know, based on SO many blatant stories shared from the people that go there that open sexuality IS common at harbin.
      i had already begun to look at other communities. harbin was not a do or die. i am expressing my experience with them.
      period.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

        Mon, January 21, 2008 - 10:03 AM
        Satya, I pray that you find the place that is aligned for you and your daughter. I am grateful that you posted this thread, it made me think, Oh YEAH, I remember the orgy pool! But what was it called again?? I can't remember, I was only there for a weekend, and that stood out more than any sign that said silence. I agree with you, that either they stand with more integrity as to what they advertise, or they just "call it as it is." If they want to have an "erotic pool," fine, but the image of meditation and healing is misleading. Like Destino, I felt vulturous eyes when I got out of the pool, (which I could only sit in for so long, as it seemed a little...hmmm...cloudy with bodily fluids.)

        Anyway Satya, what I say above, is just my two cents, as a mamma with her child,
        you have alot on your plate, and not to get all new agey on you, but just encouraging you to keep it in balance- the vision of how this place treated you, and the vision of how you WANT to be treated. You can use the opportunity to get even CLEARER vision about what you want, and what sort of people you want in your life.
        If you can keep balance, centered in yourself, and take action towards spreading the word about this, then hooray. But if it starts to feel frustrating, or exhausting, then I would take a step back, just breathe- and reconnect with what is essential for you.
        I know you know all this, just posting the "reminder!" :-)

        When I was reading your posts, I had a vision go thru my mind, of just sending them a letter, or even a link to this thread? Perhaps more people will write some feedback,
        and perhaps the powers that be there will take these points into consideration.

        Another think I will say about Harbin, is that they do seem to offer some wonderful workshops. So I am definitely not trying to trash the place. Maybe they can make everyone happy? Make an erotic or "sensual pool" in another area, and keep the silent pool as it should be, a sacred space to be..and maybe have some hours of toning sessions.?
        THAT would be healing.

        • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

          Mon, January 21, 2008 - 1:28 PM
          Here we go again....

          I've been to Harbin several times, and I've yet to see anything closely resembling an "orgy pool." This is just silly. I've also never seen "bodily fluids" floating in the pools. There ARE mineral deposits, but a check of the Harbin website points out what this is.

          As for "vulturous eyes," well, how does one qualify that? If one is insecure about being naked in front of others, one shouldn't be naked in front of others. Let's not turn it around and claim that all of the nasty old men (and women?) were lusting after a poor, nubile young woman. If someone came on to you, then REPORT IT.
          • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

            Mon, January 21, 2008 - 1:53 PM
            Geez, thanks for saying all this. And in addition...

            If someone is having sex in a pool, report it.
            If someone is having sex in the woods, report it.
            If someone is touching himself or herself while leering at others, report it.
            If someone is doing drugs anywhere on the land, report it.
            If someone won't leave you alone, report it.

            It's not that hard, you don't have to annouce to the world that it was you who reported a particular situation, and if it was a major infraction the person will be asked to leave and possibly banned, so you won't have to deal with him/her again.

            And if I might add my $0.02, I've never witnessed public sex acts or public drug use at Harbin in the 8 years I've been going. That is not to say that these things don't happen, but it is hardly as common as hyperbole might claim.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

              Mon, January 21, 2008 - 3:50 PM
              I have spent wonderful times divinely naked with tribal family, and those experiences were definitely a different vibe than what I felt at Harbin. The first and last time I went, was in summer of 2004. My boyfriend at the time, was raised by a hippie dad who took him to Harbin often. I believe it had been like three- four years (if I recall correctly), from the time he visited, and he was all excited to show me this "wonderful, peaceful" place.
              We took a painting workshop, and that was really expansive.
              But when we went to the pools, we BOTH felt the erotic charge. For a while we tried to just focus on what our intent was in going, but there was at least two couples in the pool going at it (trying to be "discreet", oh please).
              My bf was like, "what the heck is going on? It wasn't like this before!

              I have spoken with several individuals who can have seen sexual or erotic acts,
              so I guess everyone is just imagining??

              So why do we have these versions that are polar opposite?
              it's "I have never seen sex" vs. "it happens all the time."
              Perhaps both perspectives are right, maybe there are groups that come in waves,
              erotic friends or something, and that's why there is a concentration at some points...

              Anyway, I wrote more in support of Satya, I am an intuitive woman and I KNOW what I felt and saw, just as she did.


              • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

                Mon, January 21, 2008 - 4:47 PM
                "So why do we have these versions that are polar opposite? "

                if i may Be so bold (and i always am) it is because the people who are "harbin hotspringers" have a projected fantasy image of what they each need for harbin to be in order to fill their particular void and if they were to open their eyes and DISAGREE with anyone at harbin or who goes to harbin or have had a VERY REAL experience that is different than their projected/protected fantasy image they would not fit in and get, obviously, stoned and demonized, like i have by people who are attached to harbin remaining wrongly deemed "wonderful" and "peaceful"...

                i am SO glad that i did not actually go there with my babe even to check it out....
                for as sensitive and "intuitive" (namaste nikki) as i am, it would have been worse for me had i been face to face with these people...
                it would have been such a waste of my time and resources...

                what a shame...
                i had high Hopes for their projected, yet false, theme of healing and Heart consciousness...

                warm smile nikki...
                i appreciate your Heart consciousness very much...

                thank you for Being so brave...

                ; )
                • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

                  Mon, January 21, 2008 - 5:37 PM
                  hello to all~

                  first of all i do find it disheartening when i hear someone in pain and others whether we have experienced the same or not starts off by discrediting another persons experience.

                  much said of experiences at harbin are true... it can be serene and peaceful and healing and learning and yes it can also be a place to frolick and party with sex and drugs albeit supposedly discretely or maybe not so by what some have experienced. my feeling is that its all the above.... from my very limited experience there and from intimately knowing many that swear by harbin as well... and those that would go else where avoiding the vibe that sometimes some of the people put out at harbin both visitors and yes even some staff.

                  my personal experience is that of a little bit of both... peace and serenity and at times the leering and yes the sexual vibe. even as a young nubile male i sense it and yes feel it. but that is not why im posting here... i responded since im hopeful that we come out of these exchanges better understanding not only harbin but eachother.

                  there are those that will use hotsprings whether harbin or anywhere else for hedonistic purposes and those that will use it for peace and serenity. both have a place if we can respect one another... hopefully suspending judgements. maybe ur right nikki about having best of both worlds.

                  but more importantly id hope that we all get this basic notion of compassion and heart. and well what a place or person purports to be and is in actuality is another story altogether and a treatment of one or many people by a business be it for profit or not is indeed something that id like to be aware of even if its a remote one of a kind event. especially if it touches and concerns the wellbeing of those that are genuinely reaching out in need. one thing satya... i am not always in that place of heart cosciousness... at the same i try and do get there on many occasions... and on other occasions i fall... sometimes on my fricken face. and yes thank you for your bravery as well seeing thru the facade many of us wear.

                  again i would hope that when reading such treads as the original by satya that our hearts are open... not to agree or disagree with anothers assessment of a place or person but just the simple fact that someone has experienced something that can be very personal even if its in pain and reaching out for assistance.

                  best...
                  bless...
                  bliss...

                  ~1iL
  • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

    Mon, January 21, 2008 - 5:39 PM
    To all the hysterical people with all their silly rumors about Harbin: Don't go there! Thousands of people enjoy Harbin every month . . . are they all wrong? If you don't like Harbin, go elsewhere! If you've never been but you choose to be prejudicial based on rumors then don't go! Is it so complicated? Don't you have anything beter to do than write online posts fantasizing about orgies which don't exist?
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

      Mon, January 21, 2008 - 7:17 PM
      Oh, just so I won't ruffle anymore feathers, I will say 'for the record,' that I was being a bit wry when I used the term orgy. My personality is SO tempted to engage with yours, "naked," but I won't do it.
      Instead, I will focus on the heart centered replies here, TY Satya and the other brother who posted- your posts were REFRESHING. You know something comes from the heart when you feel a sense of calm after reading it.

      • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

        Mon, January 21, 2008 - 8:58 PM
        >>>>>i am SO glad that i did not actually go there with my babe even to check it out....

        Then since you HAVEN'T been, and you AREN'T going, can we drop it?
        • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

          Mon, January 21, 2008 - 9:20 PM
          you can...
          i would Be happy if you did actually...

          bye bye...
          • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

            Mon, January 21, 2008 - 9:59 PM
            some added insight to my outrage:

            "We can abide the ugly presence of poverty so long as it doesn’t interrupt the natural flow of things, doesn’t rudely impinge on our daily lives or awareness. As long as poverty is a latent reality, a solemn social fact suppressed from prominence on our moral compass, we can find our bearings without fretting too much about its awkward persistence."

            "Poverty’s grinding malevolence is fed in part by social choices and public policy decisions that directly impact how many people are poor and how long they remain that way. To acknowledge that is to own up to our role in the misery of the poor—be it politicians we vote for who cut programs aimed at helping the economically vulnerable; the narrative of bootstrap individualism we invoke to deflect relevance of the considerable benefits we’ve received while bitterly complaining of the few breaks the poor might get; the religious myths we circulate that bring shame on the poor by chiding them for lacking the appropriate hunger to be prosperous; and the resentment of the alleged pathology of poor blacks—fueled more by stereotypes than by empirical support—that gives us license to dismiss or demonize them."

            www.aflcio.org/mediacente...e_dyson.cfm

            single moms are just as oppressed as african americans because of just as many (of course different) stereotypes...

            this article speaks my EXACT point...
            blaming, demonizing, and dismissing those who struggle...
            "bitterly complaining of the few breaks the poor might get" (such as asking for a chance to just walk onto harbins land for free?)...
            POWERFUL and validating article for those who are not CHOOSING to turn their heads or who are part of problem..

            Bless.
            • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

              Wed, January 23, 2008 - 10:35 PM
              Blessings Satya.

              There are so many other welcoming places.

              Harbin is not a place I wish to visit.
              The sexually charged atmosphere is not comfortable to me. Therefore, I do not visit. When I used to live in Santa Cruz, a man openly masturbated in a tub while watching me at Kiva. I complained. He was thrown out. It made me sick though, and I did not return to that place, so I understand others' feelings. It is sickening as a female to go to a place of healing and be made to feel objectified.
              Naked does not equal sexual. If you do not understand this, then you are not mature enough to share a spring, and if you get your rocks off on voyeurism, then there are certainly places for that where you would be welcomed. I understand that. I do not understand being invasive and threatening.
              As to Harbin:
              I do not feel good there. I do not visit that place anymore.

              When I go hotspringing, I prefer the Eastern Sierras, in places that 1) don't charge and 2) aren't about sex/power, but about healing.

              As far as finding a place for you both, I send you blessings. Were I able to provide, I would. All I can do is send you light and life.
              Blessings and love,
              Star
              • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

                Thu, January 24, 2008 - 10:07 AM
                <Naked does not equal sexual

                And sex does not equal 'power.'

                And people do not openly masturbate at Harbin and there is very little open sexual activity, if any.

                To imply that you will not go to Harbin because those things exist is perpetuating the lies being perpetrated by some on this thread. You are defaming Harbin with these lies and by lumping it together with Kiva, masturbation, voyeurism and objectification.

                In any case, how can you purport to seek healing if you need to avoid places because you perceive them to have sexual energy? Healing might require facing your discomfort rather than avoiding it.

                Lady, take responsibility for you own issues and quit blaming other people and places and the world around you.
                • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

                  Thu, January 24, 2008 - 10:47 AM
                  Naked,

                  Your aggression is astounding. Obviously you love Harbin, and I respect that.

                  Respect the fact that an individual violated my space, and hence I choose not to return.
                  I didn't speak specifically about what occurred. Kiva was an example, and although it wasn't Harbin, I've had not-so-lovely experiences at Harbin. Those are my experiences. Not lies. I have always reported, but even having to report stuff is uncomfortable - can you understand that?

                  And what am I to take responsibility for? Being accosted while soaking in a place where being nude should be a safe experience? What am I blaming others for? A man masturbating openly in a tub while watching me? Others in the tub got out and came with me to report his behavior(one male, one female, too shocked to say anything, and newer soakers), and I was reassured by these folks that it was directed at me. Do you understand what that feels like? Or the embarrassment of having to go to staff for help?

                  Peace,
                  Star
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

                    Thu, January 24, 2008 - 11:34 AM
                    i hear you, star...
                    i am glad that you found some places to soak and Be naked where, as well, you feel safe...
                    may we All find that as well as offer that to others...
                    thank you for your honesty and bravery and integrity...

                    Bless.
                    • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

                      Thu, January 24, 2008 - 12:21 PM
                      <And what am I to take responsibility for?

                      STAR:

                      First of all, in neither of your posts did you allege you were accosted or assaulted or anything of the kind at Harbin. You did complain of a “sexually charged atmosphere” and “not-so-lovely experiences.”

                      Of course, you are entitled to refrain from visiting Harbin again for these reasons. But even in your second post you continue to blur Harbin together with your experience in Santa Cruz:

                      <Obviously you love Harbin, and I respect that.

                      <Respect the fact that an individual violated my space, and hence I choose not to return.

                      Rather than hide out in the Eastern Sierra while blaming and/or blacklisting Kiva, Harbin, masturbators, sexual energy, sexual charge, voyeurism and whatever else triggers you—take responsibility for your reactions to these things. After all, thousands upon thousands of others do just fine at Kiva and Harbin both and don’t react with such fear, anger, and flight to the occasional exhibitionist or voyeur!
                      • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

                        Thu, January 24, 2008 - 12:42 PM
                        <It is sickening as a female to go to a place of healing and be made to feel objectified.

                        Star, let me answer you in another way.

                        No one can *make* you feel any way. People do what they do. You react how you choose.

                        I know you are idealistic and seek a sterile world--one devoid of sexuality except in the places and situations that *you* deem appropriate. But even if your ideals were noble, they are still *your* ideals. No matter how hard you try or loudly you complain, other people (like voyeurs, exhibitionists and those who are neither but enjoy experiencing sexual energy in public places, for example) may not fall into line!

                        You are a big girl! The world is wide! Deal with it! Deal with your fear. Don’t let people make you so sick.
                        • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

                          Thu, January 24, 2008 - 1:36 PM
                          naked, (hmmm, i wonder why he is so fucking adamant about all of this voyeurism = he's protecting himself)

                          i can handle you throwing shit at me for speaking my Truth but it really REALLY bothers me to see you blatantly disregard my sisters...
                          we have all shared our genuine experiences and Truths and you have invalidated them all for your own selfish reasons...
                          there are others in this world besides you...
                          noone is attacking you...
                          we were all just expressing our Truths which we have EVERY right to do...
                          the experiences that we had at harbin were REAL for us just like your experiences have been real for you...
                          noone has mocked you or put you down for liking to go be a predator or flaunt your naked ass at harbin...
                          if you are looking for a fight, please go somewhere else...

                          it hurts for me to see you be so blatantly cruel to these gentle and courageous sisters of mine...
                          stop trying to shut people up so that your illusions can remain protected...

                          *note*
                          have you looked into the statistics on what women have suffered at the hands of man?
                          most of us have experienced at least one form of sexual violation in our precious lives and this is, very likely, the reason open sexuality and being treated like an object to fuck triggers us in some uncomfortable way...

                          star goes to the eastern sierras because she FEELS SAFE there...

                          i am so happy that she can and attest that it is, surely, what i could use right now...
                          • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

                            Thu, January 24, 2008 - 1:45 PM
                            Satya, I really have more important things to do than argue with you, your profanity, and your slanderous personal attacks. When someone resorts to these tactics it indicates desperation and a sense they have lost the argument.
                            • Re: HARBIN HOTSPRINGS = "HEART CONSCIOUSNESS"?

                              Thu, January 24, 2008 - 8:14 PM
                              Ya know, I'm not really fond of Harbin myself. It isn't my vibe so I don't go there anymore. I prefer Wilbur Hot Springs.

                              As far as the original post goes I feel you're assuming too much. If Harbin needs money then why would they take on yet another mouth to feed? I'm sure they don't lack for "volunteers" or professionals who are willing to pay for their room and board, why would they take on a charity case? Sorry but "heart consciousness" does not mean that the bottom line of making ends meet with paying customers goes away. It's nothing personal about you, I"m sure they wish they could take in every person that needs healing and can exchange skills. But that's not the reality of their situation so why take it so personally?